Lupa is for the win

Basically what I was thinking, but I kinda like to be more abusive with the whingy kind. (its just me lol ^_^)

good post to be honest, now everyone who wants to QQ about WoW can

Read, Comprehend, Agree and last but least STFU

Im not letting a protest against blizzard or the fucking media leech all this data for their fucking ACA presentations of WoW being Evil.

Thank you, Minuet! I really appreciate that you took the time to read my post, and respond in such a thoughtful and sincere manner. I'll do my best to respond to you, though I'll admit that I am quite the layperson and as such am at the disadvantage in psychological matters.

"I believe we are completely valid in getting together, to maybe help each other out some... if in no other way than to know that we are not alone in our adversity."
-- I whole-heartedly agree with this; but on many aspects I feel that this forum is far too full of unregulated hate to accomplish very much healing. What I see when I read the threads here are people sharing their pain, and others who respond with venomous sentiment toward a video game. Granted, this is not the constant, but from what I've seen it tends to be in the majority. I've also seen people insult all of WoW gamers for the shortcomings of a few, no matter the reasoning. A supportive, healthy group should not allow this. Again, this is just my opinion; I could very easily be wrong.

"In fact, I own both the current versions of Guildwars"
-- Sorry to get off topic for a moment: What is it like? I run a Mac, and can't play it; but it looks beautiful. Anyway, back on track. Sorry again!

"But the problem is, since my boyfriend and I live so far apart at the moment.... it isn’t uncommon for two weeks to go by without hearing from him, or to be in midst conversation via msn or phone... and him just up and leave, leaving his msn on... but to leave me hanging waiting for a reply. And I did try to share in my boyfriend's interest in WoW - in fact, I myself had a great time playing... unfortunately, it didn’t work out too well."
-- I think I can understand that. For a time my husband, when we were still dating, didn't live with me. It was pretty difficult on us both because he was very caught up in full time classes, and me with my own college, that we could talk only for short amounts of time online or on the phone. It was hard enough being away from him without having to worry about him getting lost in a game, or potentially seeing someone else as well.

"And I did try to share in my boyfriend's interest in WoW - in fact, I myself had a great time playing... unfortunately, it didn’t work out too well."
-- That you tried I really respect; and that you had fun I'm glad for. I am sorry that it didn't work out, though.

"Maybe you come from a very nice server where people are very moderate and socially well adjusted... but in my experience, whenever I have brought the game up in general conversation to anyone below the age of say 40... they ultimately have some story about someone they know who plays it for 8 hrs a day everyday."
-- I currently play on a Role Playing server, and it tends to be a little bit more low key. Two or three months ago, however, I played on a PvP server, one that typically packs a reputation. The people there were cold, and cruel, and rather mean. It was the norm to see harassment over the general chats. I wouldn't doubt that in some of the larger guilds that people did spend far too much time online; and many of them did take it far, far too seriously -- but none of them I knew by more than rumour. I think too that perhaps it might not exactly be accurate, the stories people tell. There are a lot of urban legends, after all, that start out with, "My friend's cousin," or "This friend of a friend."

"You can say its not the game's fault, and I believe you... but like any addictive activity, like gambling, there are designed elements to hook people."
-- You very definitely have a point there. If Blizzard didn't try to keep people paying the monthly fee, they wouldn't make any money. I don't think they're quite like gambling establishments though, at least not intentionally. What Blizzard tries to do, from what I've seen, is keep their own paychecks coming by providing what the players want. If the players didn't want something that drew them in, Blizzard wouldn't provide it.

"...but like gambling, it can have a very disastrous affect on a sizable chunk of the population who've been exposed to it."
-- This is true, but for someone to become addicted to gambling it isn't entirely the casino's fault. A person has to be willing (at least at first -- I haven't heard of many people forced to play with a one-armed bandit at gunpoint, but I could be sorely lacking in knowledge there! :3), and a person has to have an addictive personality, or at least something going on in their life where they wish to be distracted. Dungeons and Dragons used to lure in children and adults by its fantasy appeal, partially because it was almost entirely unheard of when it first hit the market and partially because no one had ever really dealt with the concept of a person being unable to differentiate between fantasy and reality -- or that they simply didn't want to. It still carries a stigma of being demonic, though perhaps not so badly as it once did. As a D&D gamer (a roleplayer in general, actually) and a fan of WoW, it bothers me as much to see people vilify the game as it does to see people get so heavily addicted. It isn't inherently evil; but I'll agree that it does provide an all too ready distraction for people that can't seem to realize when they need to come up for air.

"...but that doesn’t mean that we don’t have the right to try to find some small amount of comfort in hard times. "
-- I agree, and I apologize profusely and humbly if my previous post at all gave the impression that people in this position are somehow wrong by seeking comfort in one another.

"Lastly before I wrap this up, I would like to say that I wish we were all rational ideal individuals who were capable of always keeping our emotions in check, were immune to natural reactions when we are hurt, frustrated and demoralized... "
-- I wish we were, too. At the end of this post I'm going to relate a story of my own. Hopefully it'll explain a bit more why I'm here and trying to present my side of things, and trying to also be helpful. I understand all too well that when we're in the grip of our emotions that we say and do a lot of things that reason and ration would be appalled by. I understand this because I'm human too, and I've done the same things.

"but we're not. I would love to have a rational conversation about this with my boyfriend, but its practically impossible. I'm a psych major so I have really been trying to keep my own hang-ups out of such conversations, I try to be assertive without being accusatory... but it doesn’t seem to matter :( "
-- I understand, and I'm sorry. I really do wish that I had a wand I could wave to make it all better. As a little girl my grade school principal once said that I have a "White Knight" complex, and I don't quite think I ever grew out of it. I want to try to help, even when the chances of me being able to are slim; and even when the people I want to help may not want me around at all. I do sincerely hope that he comes to his senses and realizes what he's been doing. You sound like a perfectly kind and caring woman, and I hope he sees that -- I really, really do. WoW is absolutely nothing compared to the love and care of another human being. It may be fun, but it is just a game.

"If it makes me a whiney emo fag (not that you called anyone such btw) to be heartbroken, trying to salvage an almost four year relationship.. and when no one understands, to turn to this forum to find just a little bit of compassion and understanding... then so be it. I guess that’s what I am. "
-- Not at all! And I'm glad that you don't see that in my post, I really appreciate that. I understand your want for someone to know how you feel and to want to connect with others who share the same frustrations; but as I said before, I don't think this particular method is working. There is far too much hate in so many of the responses in these threads for there to be healing. Again, my own opinion on the matter.

"blah. Anyway... I don’t think WoW players should really take too much offence to this tribe and our conversations... Its not like the majority of us are trying to ban it, or regulate it or its use... we're just a bunch of people who've had bad experiences and as such, are venting. Sometimes - its just a health part of the grieving/healing process."
-- Some of us will, some of us won't. It isn't so much that some people want to ban or regulate it, for some of us we just can't understand why a person could ever get so engrossed that they'd ignore their families and loved ones. I'll admit, sometimes I get caught up playing with friends and the cats will come and remind me that dinner is a few minutes late -- but it's not hard for me to say, "Hey guys, give me a minute. The boys want food or they're gonna gnaw my knees off." I don't mind to let my character stand idle, so it's very difficult for me to understand why someone could ignore that cry -- or the cry of a child, or the cry of a loved one -- to keep playing. I do recognize that it happens, and I do recognize that it can't always just be the game or the player, and that often there are deeper things going on. I'm not trying to imply that you did anything to cause your boyfriend's reaction, please don't think that. But in some relationships, that might be the case. All I can see here is the side of the story told by the one being ignored, the one who may be jealous or feeling left out, who is neglected. That's not enough to really go on; and so that's why I try to come at it from a neutral "maybe it isn't just the game/the player, but it doesn't have to be just the SO, either" stance.



Alrighty. I'd promised above that I'd share my own personal reasoning for being here, so here goes...

Four, maybe five years ago, I had been battling with some pretty bad depression. I'd just enrolled in a new college, and was living in the dorms to be closer to my now husband. I mentioned above that I'm a roleplayer, and he is to. Most of our friends are, and at that time his best friend was involved in a roleplaying chat room. He talked about it often, and I'd had experience with the same people in that chat from several years previous. I knew most of the people, and thought of them as friends. So the now-husband and I both make usernames and log in, and while he quite readily finds acceptance with these people, quite a few of them shun me. It could've been because some of them didn't like me, it could've been my own skewed perceptions, it could've simply been because I thought they were paying him more attention and it made me jealous. Either way, I felt very left out and ignored, and after a few weeks I stopped going back to the chat.

My now-husband, however, kept playing. He would constantly be in the chat room when he wasn't doing school work, and to me it felt like he was ignoring me; though looking back I know he wasn't. I see now that he did spend quite a bit more time with me than he did with them, and that I was doing a lot of selfish things to make him spend more and more time with me. Finally we had a fight, and I told him that it came down to the people in the chat, or me. I was being utterly selfish, and I refused to understand. I fully, totally, and completely believed that these people hated me and that they were trying to steal him away from me. He was dumbstruck, and said that he shouldn't have to make that choice. I was devastated, and convinced that he didn't want me anymore, that he'd picked them over me, and I told him to get out.

Our breakup lasted all of six hours. I cried constantly, and while I'm not particularly proud to admit this, I did hurt myself. I did try to go out the window. I tried anything I could think of to make the pain go away -- and when I came to my senses, briefly enough, I called him and told him I needed help. He stayed with me through the night, and I tried to tell him that I didn't care if it was true or not what I thought, but that it felt real to me. I tried to make him understand that I was getting the idea that I was going crazy, and he told me he'd quit playing with them. And he did. I still feel guilty about it, to this day. It wasn't right what I did to him, any of it. It was selfish, and it was mean. But during that time, I really honestly did feel like all of it was real and that I'd never get him back if I didn't pull him away. I didn't realize that I was slowly pushing him to hide in that chat room. I didn't realize that he was afraid of my reactions, and that he didn't know what to do to make it better, and he was at wits end to do anything, and so he was at the point of turning away.

I am better now. I did take medication. I don't feel the need to hurt myself, or anyone else. I am productive, I get along with others (reasonably well, anyway.), and I am above all happy. But I think this time in my life gave me a very unique view into the perspective of one who is neglected, even if my own upset was chemical, hormonal, or pure insanity. I can understand how it feels. I know what it's like to think that he isn't listening to me, to really feel like I've lost him for good to people who might be mocking me behind my back, with people who don't care about him as much as I do.

That's why I'm here. That's why I'm trying to be helpful, to do what I can, to try to clear up misconceptions. It may not have been WoW that he went to, and it may not have been so bad as what I see here (it may have all been in my mind, for all I know), but I do at least understand the feeling and sentiment behind it.

You make me laugh lohtac, i don't see you posting you credentials or several years experience dealing with complex social psychological disorders,

But you are correct there is no need to defend wow since its not real, you cant accuse or defend something that doesn't have free will, you are required to make a conscious choice to play the game and therefor its the players distinction to allow it to "ruin their lives"

And for the record it is possible to play casually and have epics (i can link my armory profile if you like), i spend as much time playing wow each week as i do mountain biking or working on my car, in fact i spend more time doing things my partner wants to do than i spend on myself (is there a support group for this :P)

And there is absolutely no need to post nasty comments to Sigil her intentions are obviously pure and IMO its very good advise